Too many factual inaccuracies for my liking. The deaths are not so associated with pain treatment as they are with methadone treatment for addictions — tho a lot of spin has been put out to prevent further stigmatization of clinics. I should know — I work in one. A thousand deaths yearly from pain treatment — try 4000 odd (stats not in yet) from addiction treatment. Yes we do have a little problem in addiction treatment land. I stick with my job so I can help encourage the addicts off this stuff — as most staff want them to take great quantities and forever...It's like the secret railway how I perceive my mission.

reetz1960 wrote:

ashley1978 wrote:

Yep very true. In my case before being put on methadone I was on an immediate release med for 2 years before getting on methadone with it. I now use that immedidate release drug for breakthru and the methadone for my long term pain management. And my dose is pretty low. I have not gone up once in a year and came down on the b/t med a bit and thats stayed the same. And for me to even get on anything like Oxycodone I had to be sent to pain managenet with PROOF in tow. Then they did their own testing on me before they would prescribe anything. I find it hard to believe that someone with NEGATIVE TESTING ALL AROUND is kept on pain meds. But now some doctors are prescribing it for Fibromyalgia and it shouldnt be prescribed for just that IMO. The methadone system has holes in it all around and could use some work but not the negative attention its getting now.

Alot of pain patients tho, are on drugs that are SUPPOSED to be reserved for advanced stage cancer patients with horrible horrible pain and like the "worst of the worst" and these doctors are STILL passing them out for other things. Look at Oxycontin...it was originally supposed to be one reserved for the cancer pain, and it didnt take long before it was given out for migraines, dental procedures....MUSCLE PAIN. I know people arent THAT naive to think that you cant get pain meds, METHADONE included, by FAKING?? Not EVERY person at pain clinics is IN legitimate pain...in fact some of the BIGGER dealers of prescription drugs are "pain patients". For instance, I know an African American man who DOES have sickle cell, and YES sickle cell CAN be very painful...BUT he is NOT in pain ALL the time...he SAYS he is, he knows how to LOOK like he is, but truth be told the ninety 80mg Oxycontins and 10mg percs are his MAIN source of income, he has quite a few customers and was someone I KNEW I could count on the cop from if I had to. He gets his scripts once a month, no questions asked...they know he wont live long, and they also know that his sickle cell CAN be debilitating, and excruciating....fortunaltely for HIM it isnt...yet.Ive worked in a nuerologists office for quite a while...you can EASILY fake migraines, AND you can be referred to "PAIN CLINICS" for migraine headcahes, in fact migraine patients make up quite a bit of the population at pain centers all over the country...So, you see you dont ALWAYS need "proof" and there ARE somethings that CAN get you into a pain clinic. You dont think that ALL this diversion is coming from methadone clinics DO you? I know thats the convienent thing to think, since we are the ADDICTS...BUT in all honesty there are ALOT of patients with addiction issues at pain clinics as well...and the majority of the stats are showing the deaths are coming from PILLS. Not liquid, not wafers. Pills dont come from METHADONE CLINICS.I know there is diversion at BOTH places. Right now, I think the clinics HERE in Wisconsin are VERY much regulated. And the regs are followed to the hilt. Does that mean that EVERY patient on "take home" status is honest or is doing the "right" thing? No, youre ALWAYS going tom have bad apples...its WHAT to do about them, HOW to filter them out. I can only talk about the clinics I KNOW of, so thats why I am referring to WI clinics...and the reason WHY I push the pain clinic issue more is because they ARE NOT regulated. The patients there are NOT mde to give UAs, or anything like that...I mean as I have said before HOW would they go about this anyways? You KNOW people would get offended about being treated like an "addict" or a child. I dunno… I just know that it is coming from BOTH ends, and I think it is coming from one more than the other, but THATS not whats important. The important thing is...how to STOP the problem? How DO you make it so "fakers" cant get the stronger meds? How do you keep the pain clinics for the REAL pain patients? I remember a ways back, pain clinics were SO hard to get into...now, theyre popping up ALL over the place, and the funny thing is, people will protest when they know a METHADONE clinic is going up in the neighborhood, but they WELCOME a pain clinic!!! If they ONLY knew!aSH <3Ash <3

Yes, ashley. Right on the button. I also have seen that the majority of deaths are caused by PILLS, very interesting. It is tough to filter out the drug seekers from the pain patient. I know i personally used to doctor shop, using torn muscle in my back from a car wreck as an excuse for needing relief. I dragged that one out for a while! Anyways, good post. Laterrrr

Why thank ya Oager. Appreciate that! I think alot of people that are on MMT were once doctor shoppers...especially when the "Oxycontin scare" hit the streets, that became MANY a addicts drug of choice, and there are actually MORE people at MMT clinics now for prescription drug abuse rather than the old heroin...then youve got the people like me, who graduated from the PILLS to heroin after the docs got more strict about prescribing them.Youre right, the point is HOW we filter them out?Ash <3

Good post Ash...I definitely know that people are not always truthful, but I also think it's sh*tty that "some" doctors just hand them out, while other docs make it almost impossible to get them. Then,of course, word gets around which doctors are "easy" to cop from. Although Methadone is SUPPOSED to be used after trying all other avenues for pain, we know that in some cases it is the first. I know I have said quite a few times all the different avenues I had to go before I began Methadone. Yet I am sure some docs just want to get the patient "in and out".((hugs))ReetzHI OAGER,Nice to see you stuck around! Take care,hopefully we'll talk later!:-)Reetz

We had a pain care doctor in our little town that was prescribing Soma at the clinic he worked at against the owners demands. He ended up getting fired from the clinic and started his own. From there he got busted for filing a false insurance claim (on himself) for a ton of money. Then he got busted for failing to appear at a child support hearing, then it went on to being arrested in his clinic for medicaid fraud for dispensing oxicotin to ONE patient in the tune of 40,000 dollars, then he had his cars in pounded and they found drugs (pain) that he had not destroyed when patients brought them back for whatever reason. Then some other crap happened to the doctor after of course he lost his liscense.Well I would say less then a year after all this started...I read in the paper were they found this doctor dead in his home. No signs of foul play and the autopsy hasnt been released yet. It was supposed to of been released sometime this month but I havent seen it in the papers.I tell this story to the best of my memory but I can give a name and town if anyone disputes my post and they can look it up themselves.So I just wanted to say that YES pain care doctors are not all angels and they are part of the growing problem.

I know I am ignorant where the methodone clinics are concerned so yall please bare with me.Are you saying that the methodone given at the clinics is given in a liquid form and not in pill form? I guess I just assumed it was pills especially with take homes being available.I guess Im asking because if the take homes are in liquid form also wouldnt that be dangerous if they sold that to someone and then they used it in a needle not knowing what it could do?I guess I will have to be greatful that mine are in pill form because if it were liquid I would be unable to take it.I cant even take OTC cold liquids without vomiting it back up as soon as it hits my stomach. I have the same problem with alcohol.

I have to go to a church function right now but this is one of the finest posts and subsequent discussions I have seen come out of Topix in a long time. I cannot wait to get involved in this discussion. Congratulations to the folks in this discussion for such open mindedness and real life based dialog. Brian

MAPS wrote:

All long term chronic pain patients can not be set up with a moraphine pump. That was one of my options but when I went in for the testing we found out that I am allergic to moraphine. We found this out after I sat through days of orientations and testing at a spinal hospital. And I have tried most other pain medications and gone through and continue to go through the injections and the nerve burning in my spine.Forgive my short and to the point posts but I have injured my right hand and trying to type with my left hand and my right middle finger..........LOL kydrby4ever wrote:

My degree is in psychology and whattaya mean 'to DISCOURAGE patients fro getting help… sigh'Please say what you mean by that. It seems as if you believe only drug therapy can help. I'd be worried about people having patient contact who do not believe that there are options and who do not therefore present them on a regular basis. Many a clean successful patient is glad I could be of service in helping them meet their goals. You must be aware that a majority of those preseting for treatment do want an eventual taper.My care is called 'being client centred' dahling. Doing what IS best for them not what i believe is. Its scarey how many other staff don't believe there are options. Not so bad among medical staff — the nurses seem to be the flakiest disciplin

Anna-lise Ford wrote:

You better watch it, Melissa....you are coming VERY close to slander. Dr. Mark IS a PhD in Clinical Psychology...and has worked with methadone patients for over 30 years. He is currently the director of 4 clinics. He is very well respected and I cannot believe someone like you has attacked him so. This is a man that devotes all his time to trying to help people. Melissa, I am sad for you...that you have to stoop so low as to attack someone like Dr. Marc...simply because you don't have the same opinions.

Melissa sez..."Usually you are very level headed and composed but you are begining to sound like someone we both know with the throwing accusations around....."I didn't notice that last line when I first read your post, Melissa. You know...I AM level headed...very. I really do think you know that. So I RARELY post anything controversial....just kind of stay neutral...which is where I think I should stand because of what I do. That being said....something REALLY has to make an impact on me to make such strong comments....which I stand by still.Now...remind me I owe you a slap when I see you, lol....comparing me to "IT"??!!! Now that's hitting below the belt, lol!......Carol

wow, every pain board i visit degenerates into a fight in quicker and quicker times.

daddychiefs wrote:

daddychiefs,I didn't mean they are "personal" as in "you can't join in". I hope you understand what I meant. It's just that all sides are very emotional about how their view is perceived.Have a great day!Reetz